Talk:Chapter 197/@comment-197.89.22.249-20160505132001/@comment-27788729-20160507080512
@Tdfern: How are we 'not making any sense' the point is very simple; Kazuya mind controlled (since it seems some people are incredibly squeamish using the word mind rape) and violated their free will, doing so without their consent. That its, very simple to understand, what part of that is confusing you? As for justifying mind control...well...that wasn't my argument, that was the anon who started this, that being said I see where he's coming from. The author had no need to make the process be akin to rape, that was his conscious decision. He could simply of made the development be a power up without any connotations of slavery, rape, sexual abuse or eroticism. Also considering this author's other works his view on women is something I'd consider dubious already so, to be honest, I'm actually inclined to agree with the anon from above, choosing to cast rape in a positive light, by making it necessary, is a really repugnant decision. For example I could easily write a story in which the protagonist must rape and violate females in order to save the day, I can even make it that if he does not do so the world will end making clear that his actions are necessary (within the world) but that wouldn't change making it a horrible story decision. Also, I'm sorry, are you saying it is 'good' to mind control innocent people? If allowed to use mind control would you simply mind control people and it wouldn't necessarily be 'bad'? Because I'll admit that's a rather frightening prospect to me. Additionally, of course it is a plot device, that's obvious to everyone I'd hope. But its a poor plot device which also carries an incredibly negative and misogynistic message. @Citrus: Arnett and Elizabeth both describe the process as akin to rape (if you're so squeamish about the name we can call it 'mind violation' instead) and Kazuya agrees with them, as does Ticy, so I have no idea on what basis you are dismissing it. Also I hardly think the existence of concepts in the 'real world' are precluding the existence of concepts in a fictional setting in which mind control, aliens and such are genuine existing things. Again rape is also used for rape of culture and rape of land. Indeed if you want just google any of those, including mind rape, I'm honestly surprised that anyone who reads manga or watches anime has encountered the concept of mind rape before. Also I didn't say 'everything without consent is rape' I said in this situation what makes the situation a form of rape, a form of violation is that Elizabeth and Arnett explicitly gave no consent to what was done to them. Violation of an individual without their consent constitutes rape. Violations are not only physical they can also be emotional and mental. As a result no further conditions are required for this to count as rape. Arnett and Elizabeth did not give consent to Kazuya to mind control them thus he violated their free will and their minds. Mind rape is just a succinct term for it. So your example with the parents is an absurdist metaphor predicated on grossly twisting my statement to suit your narrative and holds no relation to this discussion. What...? They explicitly say the 'trampling of their wills' and the 'forcing of feelings' was what made it feel like a violation. Of course they were bothered by the feelings because Kazuya forced artificial and foreign sensations into their minds without any consent from them. Also, yeah, Kazuya admitted it was akin to rape, he didn't argue against it. Honestly I'm amazed we are since literally in the chapter the only person who did not perceive what happened as rape was Satellizer and that's for the obvious fact that she provided CONSENT. Everyone else agrees it constitutes a violation and is comparable to rape. Additionally no-one is saying what Kazuya did was wrong. I'm simply saying it was mind rape and that the weight and moral blameworthiness of such an action, even when done under conditions necessitating it, should not be ignored and swept away and definitely the victims of such things should not be vilified for feeling aggrieved. Enough women in the real world are already vilified for protesting their rapes, a story shouldn't send a similar message. Also, first; using the argument 'sometimes you have to do what you have to do' is the argument of every tyrant, dictator and killer in history. It is an easy escape mechanism to justify our actions by claiming that forces beyond our control necessitated it. That's not to dispute that it occurs, as I've said already Kazuya had little choice in this situation, but simply accepting this argument and ceasing to seek superior solutions and alternatives is a slippery slope to justifying any atrocity. Particularly when only two people; Gengo and Kazuya, are permitted to make those decisions. I repeat neither Gengo or Kazuya are infallible or gods and no human being should ever be allowed to simply dictate and determine everyone's fates for them. The rape thing makes perfect sense, hence why the chapter itself uses the terminology.